Interview: Peter Tranter
Photos: Paul Robertson
and Palm Equipment

A chat with Palm Equipment’s BIG cheese… Paul Robertson

One of the most recognisable faces within the paddlesport industry, Paul Robertson has been at the coalface of the industry for decades, so who better to quiz on the current state of watersports as it stands and the difficulties and challenges that it faces at this moment in time and what lies ahead. Plus to delve a little deeper into the man himself, his stand on current matters and what makes him and others around him, tick.

When did you first start paddling, who provided the motivation and who was it with?
My dad was training for an event at the PGL centre on the River Wye, and he popped me in a boat and let me float around. That was 1984, I was about nine, and I loved it! I spent most of the time pretending to be a battleship hiding in the reeds.

Do you have a preferred discipline of paddling?
I used to be far more snooty about one or another discipline, but now if it gets me on the water, I’ll take it. I prefer surf kayaking or creeking, though.

When did you start work with Palm Equipment, and who interviewed you?
I started paddling for Palm in 1999 and was chatting with Palm’s owner Andy (Knight) about designs at the Lyon River festival in 2003 that kicked things off. I started the following summer.

How different was the watersport industry back then?
It was the tail end of the rodeo boom, so whitewater, like other disciplines, was in transition. Many of the early paddling brands were starting to become more business-minded, for example, moving garment manufacture to Asia or pushing the surge in recreation that at the time was sit-on-tops. So quite a melting pot period, but still very dynamic and exciting.

Was marketing something you always wanted to do?
No, at school, I wanted to drive a tractor! I’m not a marketeer by trade, just someone who has energy, drive and interest in the activities I represent – and I enjoy being able to tell others about them. I trained in design at college and worked as a schoolteacher, a combo that lets me understand products and explain their benefits and values to others.

You have a great working relationship with Andy Knight. Do you have an insight into what makes Andy tick?
The man is a dynamo! Christ, it can be exhausting at times, but he never stops wanting to tinker or improve something. He’s a classic self-made and dedicated entrepreneur – like so many of the founders of brands in the outdoor industry.

Despite now running a bigger business, he still approaches everything as if he is making the gear for himself; and that rubs off on the people he employs.

What are Palm’s core focus points, and why?
We are always focused on making better equipment, and our mission is simple ‘gear for paddlers’. Making equipment as safe and enjoyable as possible and respecting and protecting the water environment through the way we operate are core to achieving this.

That might look like a jacket such as the Terek, which has a softer, quieter feel and utilises recycled nylon yarns. Or designing a new kayak for Islander that’s family-friendly but can meet the rigours of a centre hiring them out three times a day. And it might just be checking our different courier companies to see who is carbon offsetting their vehicles and moving more shipping to them.

But coming back down to the ground, right now, our focus is on supply and making sure we have the equipment available so people can get out paddling more!

What’s your paddling kit of choice and why?
We’ll I’d like it to be perpetual summer, so a Neoflex top, VE Flyte paddles, Horizon shorts and either a Dagger Rewind or Ride Eclipse kayak… depending if I’m surfing or on a river.

How do you see paddlesport development? Would it be fair to say that paddlesports is riding a wave at the moment, and do you see any drawbacks?
It’s amazing, with so many people outdoors and being active. I tip my hat to SUP for being a driver – being so fresh and without historic preconceptions, it’s been able to create a very attractive, healthy and accessible image for paddlesport. Hopefully, these new folk will learn to view paddling as a lifelong journey, with all its different facets and levels that let you explore the outdoors in different ways.

The drawbacks I see are it’s a bull market right now, and with that, there are many clamouring to get a piece of the pie. It will lead to a lot of incoming brands who are perhaps not fully invested in paddlesport. With this, there is a greater risk of poor advice for participants delivered by those without much experience. It’s why we work with groups like Water Skills Academy to help provide quality know-how.

What’s Palm’s process of recruiting brand ambassadors?  
Very organic and often via way of recommendation or observation ourselves. But the principles matter. We look for those who share our attitude of paddling being a passion for sharing and enjoying with others.  

The days of that being only champions, elite coaches or gnarly expedition paddlers are gone – although we still have and will always have those folk to push us and our gear. Now we are as likely to work with a weekend warrior paddleboarding to advocate around an issue like water pollution at a local beach.  

We all still want to see heroes, but we also want to feel like we could belong – so we look for those people. 

What do you see as the primary key to Palm’s success within the paddlesport industry?
Cliched, I know, but staying true to our mission. We aren’t for changing! A paddler started the company, is owned by the same paddler, and makes gear for paddlers. 

Business and being environmentally friendly are sometimes a tricky balance. Living in Scotland, where COP26 has just taken place, what’s Palm doing to make itself eco-friendly, and what are the future challenges for Palm in that regard?
Some of our steps have been grand, like being the first to make recycled kayaks, and others less so. For example, last week, I shipped a box to a team paddler; the machine we now have in the warehouse uses paper tape; cut to preset lengths, with pre-applied water-based glue – it’s almost eliminated plastic tape from thousands of shipping boxes. It’s often in changes to scale operations like this we can make the biggest impact.

But we are a long way from perfect. We have started to look at B Corp accreditation, but it feels like scaling a mountain, as we have so many different sorts of products and sources of supply, but it’s a mountain we want to climb.

Our most valuable contribution to date, and one we are focused on continuing, is quality. If we can make a piece of gear last a few more years – either by repairing or simply being better built in the first place, we are helping. That’s another container not on the water, warehousing not required to be heated, and fabric not being dyed, and so on.

Our next point of focus is on the end of life. Paddlesports, in general, has a great tradition of gear lasting many years. Just check ebay! But the onus on what happens to your PFD, kayak or neoprene boot once it is no longer useable is a responsibility we as a brand have to face.

How has the pandemic and Brexit affected supply problems with Palm, and what do you think the fall-out from this will be long term?
We set up a European warehouse, which, although planned, was not something we needed to invest in back when we could freely move goods between the UK and Europe. Now every manufacturing run in our Vietnam factory must be split into different orders and shipped separately. Many courier companies we have always used are still not fluid at moving shipments between the EU and UK borders, making it a headache to move stuff around. Administratively we have prepared for approvals, such as the UKCA standard applying to PFDs. It has no difference in criteria to the current ISO, so it is just another costly hoop we have to jump through. Brexit is proving hard on UK businesses who trade throughout Europe.

On the supply front, it would be remiss not to highlight that the supply issues you hear of on the news will probably not disappear in 2022. Don’t worry, there will be gear, but it won’t be easy to say exactly when or who has stock. Every day we are juggling shipments delayed, increasing costs and suppliers unable to get raw materials. We are not alone in this, but we can be more dynamic by having our own manufacturing facilities in Vietnam.

From one point of view, there is a positive. Many of these challenges can be barriers to entry for those who buy in a container load of rip off or poorly made products and ship them in for quick sale.

Palm has tapped into the booming SUP market. Are there any other area of paddlesport you’re looking to move into?
There aren’t many areas where Palm gear doesn’t appear. It would be great to be more versatile in speciality areas like slalom. But there are some great players in those areas, so we are quite happy to stay in our lane. That said, we will never stop looking at ways to improve, so a step may not be another segment, instead serving a wider range of users with more choice in an existing one.

What’s the biggest lesson you’ve learned in business with Palm?
Haha – that everyone has an opinion about colours! Being relatively naïve when I started, I think I’ve learnt that you need to be profitable. It’s not the only reason for being in business, but it’s essential if you want to stick around, produce quality, and continue investing back in. That means making sure the sewing machinist on the factory floor is paid fairly just as much as having the money to carry on designing and developing great gear.  

Palm has many links with up and coming young paddlers, and we should look out for in the next few years?
We’ve just finished a mini-Bren’s Park Jam tour – a skateboard style jam session for the kids at the whitewater courses with our ambassador Bren Orton. It was amazing two years from the last one to see some of the kids who are now absolutely ripping.  

Palm is heavily involved with river environments – what do you see as the biggest threat to rivers in the UK and the wider world?
I grew up paddling on the river Wye. In the summer, it no longer flows sufficiently to support the ecosystem around it – a lot to do with extraction for intensive irrigation. And when it does rise, often through disastrous flooding, the amount of wash-off pollutants is quite scary.  

If you could head anywhere in the world to paddle, where would it be, and what appeals about that location?
I’ve never been, but I want to go to Dakar in Senegal – for the surf and music culture.  

What’s the most enjoyable encounter with wildlife that you’ve had whilst paddling?
I spent a day with Cal Major on her round Scotland trip, and we paddled around Troup Head which is home to Europe’s largest colony of Gannets – thousands of them. It was so cool to watch them diving at speed headfirst into the sea, although our paddling kit stank of bird poo after.  

What projects is Barney Caulfield (head product designer) currently working on, and if it’s hush, hush, we won’t mention it to anyone;)?
I’ll offer some words. Softer. Stretchier. Recycled. Plus.  

Are there any issues that stop you from sleeping at night?
When your work is your passion, it is sometimes hard to park it and not take criticisms or opinions personally. But if I’ve been paddling, then no, it’s sweet dreams. 

What’s your most embarrassing moment?
All of them. But years before I started working for Palm, I always admired the Palm Explorer touring cag as an off water jacket. I tried it on at the canoe exhibition and went to the toilet to check it out in a mirror. As I was there, I thought I’d go for a pee. The next thing I knew, Andy came in… being caught at a urinal wearing your sponsors most expensive product was taking the p*** in more ways than one.  

What do you do to relax away from the world of paddlesports?
Mountain bike fast, DJ vinyl records badly, and eat cake. 

Where do you see yourself in 20 years?
I’ll be 66, so maybe on route to surf somewhere in a camper or sailing boat. 

We know you’re an enthusiastic dog owner; does he take part in your paddling activities?
Our new puppy Mac is just five months old, so although he’s been in a canoe, he still has to get his water legs. He’s a Flatcoat Retriever, though, so it shouldn’t be too hard with his DNA. 

Any final thoughts on Palm or the wider paddlesports industry?
A short time ago, we went to a store to do some boat testing. As we arrived, one of the owners of another brand I had worked with when I came out of college was there. Later that day, another old friend who had previously been a sponsor was also there. Both are entirely random meetings. They were as stoked to see us as we were them, and we all chatted freely about what we’d been up to – in work and at home. I’m super honoured that I work in a sport that has this level of camaraderie and randomness.

Quickies

If you could paddle with anyone in the world, dead or alive, who would it be?
I don’t know if he was a paddler, but Robin Williams would be fun to go on a canyon trip with.

Pick two celebrities to be your parent.
I doubt celebrities make good parents.

Which famous person would you most like to see play you in a film?
I’m ginger, so I’ll go for Chuck Norris!

Are you a bathroom/shower singer, and if so, what do you sing?
Despite being born in Wales, I’m not tuneful.

Facebook, Instagram or Twitter?
Talking face to face out of preference

An ideal night out for you is?
Dancing in a field to a sound system

What one luxury item would you take with you on a desert island?
Can I take my record decks and vinyl collection?

What would I find in your fridge right now?
Pie, cheeses and romanesco cauliflower

If we came to your house for dinner, what would you prepare for us?
Lemon and Olive Chicken Tagine

If you could be a superhero for one day, what superpower would you choose and why?
It has to be the chance to fly.

Favourite sport’s team?
Wales, for rugby

Who are your paddlesport buddies?
Lots over the years. It depends where I am and who is about.

Where did the nickname ‘Cheesy’ come from?
At school, it was a Harry Enfield character my mates decided I acted like.

Huge thanks, Paul, for taking the time out to speak to us.